1.1 CISO Competency - Leadership

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Hello and welcome to session 12. 12 competencies. The effective. See? So this is the last one. Everyone s Oh, this one's on leadership. It's very special, Really excited. Just wantto give some words of appreciation for everybody that showed up every single week here.

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I think we averaged over

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70 per procession in that. That's just amazing number. Thank you for giving your time. And also thank you to all of you who gave you back on the course. We had over 70 respondents, and so it will be will be taking those and making changes and updates based on the overtime.

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Also, for those of you that

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I want to share the scores with other people, this will be off on our platform shortly. So stay tuned for that. Um and really just a special thank you to adhere. Ed, thank you so much for showing up every week and giving us such an amazing learning experience. And

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I took a lot for me personally, and I know I've heard from a number of users as well.

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I have learned a great deal on dhe, some of some of which has changed their lives and careers. So thank you so much. And I sure do You have a massive reading less now, So thank you so much for that. There's nothing better than a good book, so thank you.

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Well, you bet. And what Woody Allen said, like, 90% of life is just showing up. Right? So if you do that, you got most of it done. Well, if you have a long reading list, you're gonna get a longer one. Today.

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I'm gonna introduce you all to 13 people in this lecture. This one. I took a lot of time to go through this one. This is, um,

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of all the confidence is this is the most important

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because it's the most visceral. It's really where,

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um,

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where success kind of comes. I mean, you could be a manager on managers know how to get from point A to point B,

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but leaders figure out what the point B is, right. Sometimes leaders air crazy, and sometimes they're insane. Sometimes they're awesome, and sometimes they're in the middle.

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A wall all sizes and shapes summer boisterous and loud. Some are vory understated, introverted.

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Um, but all of them see the future. All of them have a vision for where things are going

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and and they invite you to join them. That's what they all have in common. And sadly, some of them will lead you in a place you shouldn't be going. Um, some of them a legion. Places that are unbelievably wonderful,

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but for the sea, So

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leadership is important. We're not dealing with selling coconuts here, right? We're talking about protecting infrastructure from cyber attacks.

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So you have to be forward looking. This is not an optional one

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If you don't have good leadership skills,

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Um, I think you're gonna have your gonna struggle, is an executive and in cyber security. And again, we've set over and over again that sea. So is our metaphor for being a successful executive in cyber. Now, here, kind of the

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the main elements here,

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one of the belief system

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and the other is a vision of the future. That's it.

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You don't have tohave skill or education or money or position or power.

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You don't have tohave stature. You don't have to have nice clothes. You don't have toe

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be able to speak beautifully. You just need to believe in something and you need to have a vision of how you get their eyes. My favorite Norman Rockwell painting

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is of a guy standing up a tenner hall. It looks like a farmer, and he's speaking. His mind

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flubs that picture because it's obvious that he's not. It's not. Some learned person with a

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prepared speech is standing up and saying what he believes in. That's what what

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great countries nurture that and encourage people to believe in something

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and take you there. Now I'm gonna introduce you to a lot of people range of people in the next hour, including our bass cast. By far. I shouldn't want to disparage our They're wonderful guests, but this is one

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I've been waiting Thio introduce you to. So you're gonna love our guests that about 1 45 years Want one of the best one of the best leaders I know.

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I'm gonna take you through leaders from industry and government and history and also my own leaders people that have

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learn from personally and I'm gonna share with you what I think they did, right. What I think they did raw

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because the demonstrating by example is the way to do this now, Not too long ago, my daughter was was She's just graduated high school school college. Next year she had to read Martin Luther King's great speech, and I got excited because I'm you know, for me,

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I can't think of anybody who sort of exemplifies leadership more than more than this guy.

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But you know something? You go read the speech, and much of it this kind of flat.

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But when you watch it, and in particular when you watch the part, we talked about what he believes in.

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Man, is that thing come to life? I mean, they're e don't think it's like perfect logic or, you know, these incredibly good examples. Even though he has all of that, it's his belief. If you if you believe what this guy believes, that's what Simon cynic there. If you wantto

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read a book from somebody really reinforces this concept,

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we align ourselves with people who comes the same belief structure. Martin Luther King and I have different times. We came to different places, couldn't be two more different people, but I'd follow this guy to the moon because I believe what he believes. It's a simple as that.

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So I'm just saying you can't be a leader

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unless you believe in something. You have a vision for getting from Point A to point B, and you can show other people that belief. And that's what Martin with their king did. That's what people followed him.

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You know, that's there's such an amazing lesson year. The Simon cynic book I probably is that he invokes on, uses Martin with the King's an example. There's other great examples and his

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in his book and go back and either watch on YouTube or read the speech.

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And for me, you know, seeing him go through

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the statements of belief for me is one of the great and thrilling moments and in our country's history. And again, it's not

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because of some amazing prose or some impeccable logic, said Man. Same what he believes in. So be that, be that person.

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That's the first step to becoming a leader.

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Now the second thing is being self aware, and I want to tell you about someone that I got a chance to get to. Now the guy there with this finger is index finger Out

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was on the 18th keyboard for quite some time, and I had the opportunity to host him in my office and become friends. Family with him. Skill. Emilio ran Apple

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And the reason I say

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self aware in the context of Gil Amelio is think about what he did.

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You know, apart from some incredible financial deals that basically saved Apple. When people say Steve Jobs save Apple, save that, I roll my eyes and say, No, I don't think you know the history you were merely saved. Apple and Gil Amelio basically brought back Steve Jobs.

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Talk about being self aware. This is a man

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who knew what Apple could bay

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and understood what the future waas

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and was self aware enough to know. And if you were listening, he'd agree with me that he wasn't the guy to do it

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like that takes a lot of courage and and And for me,

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you know, this guy who I counted my friend

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handed the reins over to somebody who basically created

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what you could arguably call the greatest companies of all times and and had you not done that, you not been self aware

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of his, you know, maybe some some shortcomings and move on all of us. Who the hell Steve Jobs you know, only have no none of us

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could could do with Steve, Jobs said. So skill Amelia was self aware enough to know that he could do that. Now

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I want you to take a moment here, and I want you to think of your own personal weaknesses.

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Like if you think it's the of Gil Amelio, I'm sure he thought, Look, he's incredible administrative manager, Great executive.

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You made some financing deals or just right, but he's not Steve jobs, Not nor you. Nor am I.

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But for you, what are some of the weaknesses that you have that you try to hide from your team? Here's an example of somebody down in the bottom left. That man holding the newspaper is, ah, man named Charles Revson would tell you funny story. My grandfather had a tennis court

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in New Rochelle. I sort of grew up on,

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and we would have people come play and they would pay a dollar to,

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and I was one of the little ball boys when I was a kid. Running was a clay court and in your shell it's still there unless Bernard and Stevenson Boulevard in your shell

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and, um,

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this old guy would come the gold to May and he would play and play and play. And we were very respectful. My Uncle Carmine, who ran the court for my grandfather, would say You'd be very respectful to this very important man. He'd give you like a nickel after you're out there playing for three hours. You know, running, grabbing balls is a ball boy.

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And it was Mr Rev. Issa NW

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and I never connected until later. I was in business school. Pick up this book about Charles reps and I went, Holy ***, that's Charles reps! And that's the guy. I asked my uncle and he goes, Yeah, why don't you tell me it was the founder of Revlon? They basically said you were a little boy. You wouldn't have known the difference. And he was right. I wouldn't have known the difference, but

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this was a hated man. You could read this book.

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Isn't that a guy who was well loved? He was a terror terror toe work for

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and in fire and ice, you know, from Andrew Tobias. He sort of lays out

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that this was a guy who basically was trying to hide many of his short comes I again, I apologize if any of you are his relatives. But at least from what I could see in the book, this was somebody who went to great lengths

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to try to hide his shortcomings. As imagine, it was incredibly capable guy. But here's the secret.

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Your team already knows your weakness is just a CZ. You know, the weaknesses in here on, Boss, if I asked any one of you

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to describe your Boston E, you would give a psychological profile so deep

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that it would make Joyce brothers blush. You know, your boss. You know what they think you know the weaknesses, you know, they're hiding from you. They probably have a guess as to what they do every minute. What? They're not at work.

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Your team analyzes you. There are no personal weaknesses. You hide from your team, they know them.

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So you have to be self aware. If you're gonna be a leader, you have to be vulnerable. Managers don't have to be

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managers could be aloof. Whatever you get. Once 0.8 point eight point imported beer laid out, you just follow the steps and take the team from a to B go go for They're a dime a dozen,

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but somebody who really has a belief in a vision has to be vulnerable and has to recognize their weaknesses and has to share their honest self awareness with the whole team. This goes for a good C so I know what you're good at and know what you're weak. And here's an example

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of two people

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who are pretty flawed. Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill to my favorites, I probably read, is about 10 biographies on Reagan. I think I've read every one of them and on Tip O'Neill less to read. There's been a few books. I read them all, and and this is my favorite one tip in the Gifford because these two guys two flawed people

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where people that I think both parties like, I'm an example. I consider myself an independent. I love them both. I didn't agree with all the stuff, particularly agree with a lot of stuff Reagan did, but I still

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I couldn't help

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but but admire man who believed in something and Seema Tip O'Neill. Look, these guys were good buddies. After five o'clock, they would get together. They were both Irishman and they were friendly things. His book by Chris Matthews from Politics were I wish we'd get back to that, but I don't show it for a political port point. I'm just saying

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these air too flawed people

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and I don't think either of them spent three seconds trying to hide their flaws. Now, I know there's been some recent audio this command about Reagan that maybe maybe changes some thoughts. But I still think we all know they were both flawed. They had deep beliefs. People followed them for the beliefs, not because they were quote unquote perfect people.

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Great leaders

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do not have to be perfect people.

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Now I want what I want you to. D'oh

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is the media ask you to take a moment and ask yourself a couple of questions? Because this is this is for you. This'd not me lecturing because I feel like giving a lecture. This is me

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trying to guide Just threw some thought processes that are going to help you.

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I want you to start by thinking at your retirement dinner. You know, you're the retires, the sea. So are the head of threat intelligence or the head of incident response for large bank or

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senior security compliance executive and your whole team's there,

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and I want you to just fast forward to that.

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I've had that I retired from 18 to.

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Why would you like them to describe you? What do you want them to say? Thank you. Want

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you want them to talk about? You know, your accomplishments. You want to talk about some kindness? Do you want them dug that you were toughest nails? I don't know.

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I'm just saying

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For a great leader, it's pretty clear

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what what you want. You want people to talk about your vision

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and hopefully that you got there like that's That's the best thing and you could be complete crews like Here's an example of one, a lot of musk of his long time from retirement.

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But, man, I have a feeling at his retirement dinner. If you ever has one, they're going to show this picture. This is his car up in space. It was most thrilling moment. I've loved space my whole career by the whole team. A tag cyber came to a grinding halt when we're watching this and we're just riveted,

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you know, watching one month's car up launched into, uh,

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get into orbit. Just so thrilling and amazing and incredible and and the guy's kind of crazy, right? One must criticize him all the time. I watched him smoke weed on Joe Joe Rogan's podcast. I mean, he's not a guy that's not flawed. I don't think he tries to hide it

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right. I don't think he thinking we all know who he is,

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but he sees the future. This is a man who has a vision for the future. Like him or not, he's a guy who sees where things were going to be. I've always felt like in cyber Security I had that 900 right?

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But a lot of you probably read some of my earlier books, like on Intrusion Detection, said Boy.

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Uh, and you had that wrong that I probably did. But viewed broadly, I always could sort of close my eyes and see something. I still do tag cyber. I know what I want to be anywhere I want to go and I can lay that I'm a lousy manager,

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but I'm so flawed. It's not funny. If you work with me, you go. You don't like doing 100 things at once.

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You know, sometimes you're talking to me. I'm half listening,

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you know, im scatterbrain. But I have a vision, and that's what people come work for me. And that's why you work for Align Mosque. You don't go to this guy because you want to see impeccable management, and you're kidding me. You follow him because he's got a vision. He's a leader again. You may disagree or not. You are agree.

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But you can't disagree that it's this guy. Didn't see the future. Certainly does.

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Now,

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second question

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Would you like to work for you? Like, just go look in the mirror and think about how you treat the people that are around you and I don't mean a day to day basis, but I mean,

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you know, managers are the ones who

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deal with your day to day stuff.

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Leaders think more macro leaders are there

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to make sure that this ship is headed to the right place. Not that it's a smooth sail getting there,

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and here's a couple of guys can't help. But

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you know what I like to work for? May um, I've read this Jack Welch's book. I watched all his videos

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Jack Welch and his wife. I read his column in the business journals and much of what he does now. I don't care for too much. It seems like a lot of

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same old, same old.

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But when he was sort of in his prime,

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Jack Welch was an interesting guy. I knew a lot of folks at G E when he took over in the East. Call Neutron Jack in the early days because he got rid of a lot of people. But he had this idea

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that if you're not number one or number two in the business, and you should get out, are you saying that?

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And any meant it? And And I remember sort of seeing you know him in action and seeing it in his eyes that he saw something. Aggie. Now, I don't know, only has that been so good lately

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Maybe some of your work A G Um,

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so I got amazing company, but you cannot. But look at the High Mountain and Welsh and sort of get going back to this. Would you like to work for me? Is very visionary there who sees the future. Is it true of this guy's that true? This guy's a true of your own CEO. And is it true of you when your team looks at you

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and they say,

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Is this person is this woman or man in my leadership chain?

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Is is she or he leading us in a direction

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that you know, A makes sense and B is consistent with their beliefs?

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And you knew it was true with Jack Wells Not. Not so sure about Jeff. Maybe. But it's certainly worthy of some thought. 3rd 1 How do I compare to my favorite boss? So think about you know, and again in the context of leadership,

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how do you compare now? I've got a problem here. Here's my problems. First boss I ever had was Terry Hart. This is Terry up on the right here in the space shuttle.

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So my first boss was a space shuttle last night. Look who His boss Waas. He's writing a note here about leadership to freakin Deke Slayton.

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So when your first boss had Deke Slayton as a boss, you eh

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are pretty good. Lineage would be You've got some, uh, some, you know. Really? Uh,

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hi. Bars there to try to meet and Terry was amazing.

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He he always

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I kind of saw things in a way, again, with this vision for where things were given example, We build these prototypes

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and we bring it to him

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and he'd lean back. And without really being critical, the prototype are telling us what to do. He tells, Wouldn't it be great if and then describe something that could be

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no idea how to get there. But you have this look and then we would go off and improve the prototype and come back and he'd do it again. I remember being mad the first few times, and then I sort of got it. He was guiding us along. Wasn't telling us what to do. He's guiding this a long time.

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Pretty sure that's how they must have done it at NASA is there was nothing I'd ever seen before.

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Now this guy, Chris Hatfield, you ever get chance this book is worth reading? Chris Hatfield is amazing, and he doesn't master class

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on these. My wife bought me these

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master class like videos. I don't know who makes them likes Ron Howard and all these famous people doing a class to teach out of cook and drink wine and write novels and stuff. Well, Chris Hadfield teaches you how to be an astronaut is so good.

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It's if you haven't bought the master class thing, I again I have no idea where you got I got is a

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birthday president or something. But

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this guy's incredible. So So these astronauts are really cool because again, going back here, how do you compare to your favorite boss? Well, I compare very poorly to Terry Hart. I've spent an entire career trying to be a good I'm like I can and he'd probably say the same thing about the ex light at NASA.

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Now, what about your least favorite boss? You know the least is your least favorite boss, or you do resemble again context of leadership here. This is a little bit less about They did a management. But do you have somebody who,

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you know, may or may not be sort of guiding you along? And here's a couple of people who didn't get along much.

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So this book it's an old one by Victor Lasky about Henry Ford. The second is like pure Kardashian

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for business

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and enough phrase by Henry Ford the second. Never complain, never explain. It kind of summarizes this whole approach, but here's Lee Iacocca just passed away recently, and I love that. My my my best friend in the college went to Lehigh,

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and when we went to his graduation, the Lee Iacocca was the speaker. I just loved it. Great speaker back in the eighties, but these guys didn't get along,

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and I think Lee Iacocca would say that this guy was his least favorite boss. And you spent an entire career trying to do something other than how how Henry Ford would go about business. And again, you agree, read the book. Henry Ford was a

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tough dude, and Ford Motor Company is one of the iconic sort of gems in our in our country. So you know, it matters how Ford Motor Company is managed. It's not the it's not acceptable,

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you know, for a company like Ford

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to be to be managing in any way other than

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in an amazing man and a Lee Iacocca, you know, really was just this folksy guy. If you if you share a generation with me, then you remember his TV commercials

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and you remember his approach

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and as I understand it, not a real great sort of day to day tactician, but more visionary guy. He's invented the Mustang, basically,

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but he would stand there and saw the end of these minivans that you kind of helped to invent.

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And he talked to Americans. He's saying, Listen, them was back when Americans were feeling badly about quality and our products was back when, you know, people would talk about trying to be more Japanese, for example, in the way we'd sort of go about

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doing. Certain types of things are building products.

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And he would He would lean on these the van and he'd say, Hey, you know what?

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If if you see it about something with better quality than I want you to buy

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um,

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essentially saying, But if not, then I want you by Christ because he went to Chrysler, you know, and and ran the company

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and I watched it carefully because I read this book and I felt like he was a leader who in some sense was doing everything he could

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to be different from this guy, who he did not get along with him, basically got pushed out because I think the Iacocca had expected to run for this was all bashing the eighties seventies and eighties. Really, really fascinating stuff.

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And, you know, I hope by now you've figured out that, you know, be becoming a good chief information security officer is more than just firewalls and encryption and

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compliance. And knowing how to expand GDP are the acronym. I bet you don't, by the way,

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but it's It's more than that's deeper. It's It's understanding how,

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in this case, how leaders either do it right. Like this guy

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Deeks. Leighton, What's the leadership? They see a vision. Yeah, they're cheerful and friendly. But you know something. You don't have to be cheerful and friendly. Like I would go back to this guy. I personally not a big fan of some of the approach is he takes This is not a guy, but I suspect is a

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Ariel that pleasant to be around every day. I'm going to guess

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not somebody want to emulate before I certainly like the follow him. So would you follow him? Yes. Follow these guys. Well, I mean, both of them are capable managers. I mean, I had Jack Welch is certainly a guy who took G e

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in a direction. And there was an off hell of a lot of success there now. But there's a lot of people who trace their lineage

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to Jack Welch and still consider many of his business ideas to be wonderful ones. Any starting had a vision, Would you follow him? I certainly wouldn't. It's really follow Chris Hadfield.

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How about these guys? Well, I don't know. You know, um,

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you know, powerful manager here is interesting. Henry Ford. The seconds Father

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was named Edsel. Um,

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and then Edsels Father was Henry Ford. So

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how's that for a lineage? But Edsal was not much of a manager or leader. You didn't sort of take to the executive thing. That was the grandson who took over.

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Never complain. Never explain. It is mantra these guys again. So would you found for me? I'd probably follow this guy. Maybe not so much here.

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Fifth question. What vision

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do you share with your team? Where you're gonna go

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now again? If you share a generation with me, then it's hard to do tech

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and not

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think about IBM as being in a special category. They just are, um

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you know I don't mean the IBM from the perspective of white shirted, um, you know, sales people, um,

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you know, with the white shirt and tie,

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I mean, I'd be Emma's. Ah has an idea. Like I read Tom Watson's Tom Watson Junior's book about

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building at IBM. So interesting. But

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there's a guy who

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I think you'd probably say had a vision that saved IBM, and it's this guy.

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So my wife and I were at a hotel in Virginia, at some resort in Virginia for the weekend. I had business. She came along

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and we're out by the pool

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and my wife just starts chatting up with some woman who's sitting next to her.

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And it turns out that this woman was the shoes there because she was the flight attendant

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for Lou Gerstner's private jet is right around the time he'd, uh

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started, you know, taken over IBM. And I'll tell you his story on Broadway. This book is sort of required reading. If you haven't read that, you got to read,

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um, but she said, you know that she could describe where he was going like I was. So we're being so impressed with that. I mean, going as in jet going, as is a company like the SEC. The the flight attendant

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for his plane

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could explain the corporate vision.

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And here's what it was. Basically, again, I there's a serendipitous where they're laying by the pool. Miss,

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this woman is explaining to me what Lou Gerstner's doing IVF.

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What ideas? I think Lou Gerstner had been brought in basically to break up IBM, right? I mean, I think that's that's more or less what he was supposed to. D'oh!

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Boarded brought him in. There was problems. Mainframes and peces and mid sized computers had been

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just not good for Ah, you know, I be EMS

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hardware business,

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the IBM PC, Charlie Chaplin, the little of commercials. And but where I teach over Steven's, you know, we're first school to demand the kids get an IBM PC, like 1985 was interesting time, but IBM did not do well, so Lugar Sin was brought in to basically break up the company, and he had a background in consulting,

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and he went. He visited the places in business units of people and he listened and he absorbed,

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and he decided that they really could turn around IBM. And I think in a sense, he created IBM Global Service's, which right now is my mind. One of the premier professional service groups. Yeah, they do cloud now, and,

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you know, they have, ah, really vibrant CEO. Um, who I had a chance to meet a couple of times. But Luker Stern to me is a guy who saw something in this picture of him. I know the picture from later,

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but I like this picture because it shows you're staring at something. I got this idea even in the picture in that book

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that he saw that IBM could be something.

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And why not do it? Why not take them there? He didn't know Maine from from a mid size from a PC. I think when he took over, maybe some of you know him. I knew him. I don't think that's who he waas. I just think he came in

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and he saw something and he led them down a path

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to success. I mean, I'm going the other way to put it,

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like if a manager had come in

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with sort of the blinders on,

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then I suspect you might not have

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and I'd be in right now. I think that is entirely possible that

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you know, his his marching orders were coming and, you know, gather the place up and either break it up or salad or whatever you gotta do. Let's get some value. And this is not working. So if you bring a manager in with the leadership skills

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and that's what would happen now, why is that important in the context of cybersecurity?

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Well, you guys were constantly reassessing what you're looking at your team and your setup of what should be outsourced. What should be Insourced on? What should be, ah, product of what should be built internally or what you should stop doing or start doing or whatever. All of these things could be done from a management

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perspective where someone has given you marching orders.

30:27

So you've got a compliance work sheet and they say, do the six things and it was signed by a regulator. So you salute and say, Yes, ma'am. And you go do it

30:37

or

30:38

*** it, you can fight. Why not? You're allowed to. I have. I bet everybody on the school's fault with compliance regulators and a little fun

30:48

pushback.

30:49

You gotta put yourself out there a little bit. Might be a little bit of risk in doing something like that. But think about Lou Gerstner brought in to do a task and then decides to do something else.

31:00

And if you read the book, you'll see it took some courage, right? That's not just,

31:06

Hey, I think I'll do something else. That's it. You don't have that prerogative yours aboard there and you're accountable to shareholders and you're taking a personal and business risk. And there's a lot of people involved here.

31:18

Well, how about for all of you think about how many times

31:22

you've had somebody

31:23

wind you up and push you along and say, Go do this thing

31:29

and as you're doing it, you're saying you know what? This is probably not right.

31:33

Well, why are you doing it then? And you can say, Well, my boss fired. I need a mortgage. I don't wanna get a bad performance review and an officer with that man.

31:42

That's not leadership that's following you. Get the point. If you want to be a follower than dammit, be a follower, I don't care. Be a follower,

31:52

you're not gonna get anywhere doing that and you do have to file a little bit.

31:55

But he has a board, right? A CEO is aboard the sea. So has a boss. And we do have bosses. You have to be able to walk in,

32:04

run and chew gum and play the fiddle same time. Be able to do multiple things.

32:09

But when it comes time to lead, you have tohave the ability and the courage to do it. I just think, you know

32:16

Lou Gerstner today is a guy who you know, if anybody works at IBM or as a family member works there of your own stock of your in any way

32:24

a stakeholder in IBM peasant present, past or future,

32:30

then I think you wanna thank this man because you showed a lot of courage being leader.

32:35

The last thing is, are you a leader? You know all of this stuff that we've gone through. We've been talking for 40 something minutes, and

32:44

I've got a really awesome guest there. I want to bring on a few minutes, but

32:49

are you later? Do you?

32:51

Do you have the skills

32:53

be? And what if we say right up with top?

32:58

We're the two preconditions We didn't say you have to be educated

33:01

or well dressed or rich or

33:06

but whatever.

33:07

You just have to believe in something and have a vision for how you get there. You don't have to be the manager. You don't have to know how to get there. Get tell you many times in my own business by team, I'll say, Let's do this

33:21

and I get all excited and I'm feeling really great about myself And I said, You understand them, they go, Yeah, I think so. They walk out of the room and they're all looking Charlie, I don't know what we're gonna do that.

33:29

And and I always think, Well, that's that's your job. My job is where we're going. So leadership is different. And look,

33:36

does 11 other skills that we went through here, so you can't just being aloof.

33:40

Throw an idea out there had you being efficient and knowing security, you know all the skills we went through.

33:47

But this leadership skill is one, and maybe it's a habit more than a skill. But just this idea that

33:53

you should really have some sincerely

33:57

sincerely held

33:59

belief we're going for me. It's always been that security should be, in some sense, an enabler like there's so much that that technology conduce do

34:13

to make our lives better. I really believe that I believe that our lives could be better. They could be safer. They could be better. Just think battery people lose loved loved ones in car accidents.

34:24

So you believe autonomous vehicles can reduce that I d'oh!

34:30

So why aren't they? They're more quickly because we're worried about safety and adjacent Lee Security,

34:38

sir holds it back. Every minute it's held back, somebody dies, period. I've I really believe that I believe that equation The fact that safety and security concerns have not been sufficiently attended. Thio an autonomous vehicles kills people every single day period. That's my belief.

34:54

If you share that belief and I say, then *** it, let's go do something about it. Come on,

35:00

then. That's the point. That's what a leader does. And then people get excited. They say Yes, say, what's our vision So well, the vision is we're gonna let's go do these five things. What do you say

35:12

you're with me and people say Yes, I'm with you

35:15

now. The circumstances for this could be coming to crazy things. I don't want to show you somebody who fell into it

35:22

in one of the most unusual sets of circumstances I've ever seen. And it's Mrs Roosevelt,

35:29

you know,

35:30

I'm Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Polio is, you know, um,

35:36

barely get up office chair

35:38

and really couldn't go up, go out and see the country much like they were hiding

35:44

his disability, and it just was not easy to get him around.

35:49

So at a time when our country was desperate for leadership, but he certainly was able to do it

35:54

from his chair and through the radio and through

35:59

images and through his speeches were inspiring.

36:02

But somebody else stepped up as a leader in our country. And it's this lady, Mrs Roosevelt.

36:08

You go back and read

36:13

her her speeches or she wrote it. You brought a column. I think it was for Red Book.

36:17

Well, place is right, but she's talking to Americans through Red Book, not just women but everyone.

36:24

And you could argue

36:27

that during one of the most difficult times in our country's history, Mrs Roosevelt was was a leader perhaps as important as her husband. This autobiography is worth reading I listen to this one on audiobook.

36:42

I do a lot of driving and I figured with my kids, my wife got got for me. I was all I was thrilled really long. I was like, 30 stopped. It was like 30 days of commuting,

36:53

but it was worth every minute of it. So this one I didn't physically, Reba. I listen to it and it's a thrilling story, and it's something that I think both men and women could enjoy. And you don't have been American to enjoy it. It's just a

37:08

It's a story for me of leadership, not a story of her life, foreign anecdotes or politics. Or

37:15

I think she rose to leader because she had to and

37:21

didn't have any of the skills. She didn't look like one. She didn't sound like you listen to her voice is hardly like a a melodic, beautiful voice. None of that stuff.

37:32

But people followed because she believed in something. And if you go go dig in and see what she

37:38

was saying, you get a sense of that. So look, I'm asking you to be a little bigger yet, so I saved this one to the last and you're gonna see in a minute we'll do our case study of minute. But you'll see from the guests that I've invited. I think he's probably the finest, um, of all the

37:55

she says in our business, Certainly someone I

37:59

I've enjoyed working with. But let's let's take a minute. Let's go through our case that because I wrote this one

38:05

because tonight it gives you an illustration of the kinds of things that demand that you step up and become a leader. You've got to make a decision. Here is the idea.

38:15

Um, you know our hero here. This is the last case study You'll read about Emily. Um,

38:22

she finds out that there's a big layoff

38:27

in the company.

38:29

Big giant lay off. It's a voluntary. You've all seen these things coming in the next three months, and she's got to talk to our team. And by the way, that looks like something she might decide to take.

38:40

And it's it's a rough one because she knows involuntary might be coming,

38:45

and she knows she has basically three things that she could do because her team wants to hear

38:52

what's going on. They're nervous. They pretty sure It's right. They want to hear from Emily. What? What should they do?

39:00

And she thinks right. The first possibility is the Downplay it and say, Hey, listen, just business. You know,

39:07

these things come and go. You decide if you want to go, go. If you don't want to go, stay. That's enough. Set on that. Let's get let's go. Start talking about something else. We all know managers who do that. This is not a great leader. Probably doesn't do that,

39:23

but certainly an option.

39:25

You know, the second possibility is for her to discourage movement.

39:30

Just say, um hey, you know, let's say you guys were doing security. Why don't you stay? I

39:38

I think it's gonna be okay. Might be wrong,

39:42

but, you know, why don't we stay together? This apartment, that's mighty engine. I think we can really do something together, and I'm gonna do everything I can to keep you together. Baba ba that second option and then third, she could say, Look,

39:55

it's probably a pretty good deal for a lot of you, um, cybersecurity of full employment. I don't know anybody who's not working in this business,

40:05

so if you take the money. You probably be working next week. And, you know, I know it's not good for me or the company, but

40:12

does look like something. And to be honest with you, I'm looking at it myself.

40:16

Now, those Air three that I'd listen, maybe others.

40:20

But the question is,

40:22

how would like going back? How would you know this guy Handle such a thing? How would you know these guys handle it? How would Terry Hart handle something like that? I would. Jack Welch, Neutron, Jack. And look, how would little on must do

40:37

if there's a big layoff that he has stopped the team. About what? With these guys, they wouldn't around Reagan or

40:44

oh, our tip O'Neill. I would. I'm feeling I know how he would do it and and and similar these guys. What would they dio? How would all these people we've met

40:54

over the last 45 minutes to deal with

40:58

this challenge of sitting with the team? And that's what at your case study, that's what I want you to talk to your team about. What are the pros and cons of the different options? And then, basically, what could you do? This is not management. There's no prescription here. There's no playbook for this.

41:14

This is you believing in something. What do you believe in? And go sit down with the team and tell him what you think is the future is going to be here. And you may just sit down and say I have no idea. I mean, I don't know. You'd have to decide.

41:29

So with this side of you, that's the last case. Did you know? Look, I I've been just jump right ahead here. I've got my good buddy Jim Wrath. You want a quick stories before we hear from? Just last week, I forgot to tell Jim

41:42

that we had skipped a week for Black Cat and he texted me goes, Hey, you still want me on? And I said, Oh my God, Jim, I am so embarrassed and he's still kind enoughto Hop on here, Jim. First I want to thank you for being kind enough to give us a second shot here. I'm so horrified when I saw that note I went I deserve

42:01

thio.

42:02

I have a bucket of water over my head. So then I learned I learned kindness from you. Well, you've paid it back 10 fold here by by joining us for last week. I wanted you a czar

42:17

last guest here, Jim. We had a whole host of different folks time. We had David Ortiz and

42:22

some people. You know, a lot of your friends were preceded, but I think you're as good as anybody I know. I'm going to start by just asking where you heard us talking about leadership. You probably had some

42:36

some some leaders in your management chain kind of coming through the business.

42:42

And some people that you, you, you know, work with or been inspired by, who were some people, like, maybe they've been either mentor street or people that you worked for, that you thought really had a vision and that you felt like you learned from any anybody Come on putting on the spot here. We didn't go over these questions,

43:00

but what comes to mind,

43:01

the first thing that comes to mind is my previous leader.

43:06

Um, and her name is Meg McCarthy. Issues on the board of four different companies now, But the reason is,

43:15

I actually have ah one of my development objectives

43:20

this year. Second year in a row because I wasn't able to accomplish it in year one

43:28

second year. Oh, I had the same

43:30

skill that I'm trying to really develop. And Ultimate, the master,

43:37

which was her strong suit, was without a doubt. Whatever,

43:43

uh, most endearing qualities the leader and I've got, you know, more than 30 years and corporate America, she was the best leader I've ever had. And I've had some great leaders, but, um, she was just by far the best. Now,

43:59

what made her the best? Well, there are a lot of things, but this is the one thing that I'm struggling to emulate.

44:07

Um, and my head's quite still part of my development plans. When you had a conversation with Meg, it didn't matter whether it was over the phone or in person or when it was, and it didn't matter what the subject matter. Waas

44:22

you came into the room with a frame of reference, as you were thinking about the problem or problems are topics

44:30

and

44:32

throughout the discussion, culminating in the end, you always left the room feeling better about yourself

44:43

because of the way that she interacted with you.

44:46

And it was subtle.

44:50

Um, but I think she had a

44:53

A technique that was relatively consistent beginning with

44:59

instead of diving into the issue at hand. That was, you know, the burning, pressing high risk and look. I had

45:07

conversations about the CEO's email getting breached and email messages going to its family members. So I mean, I had lots of sensitive,

45:17

you know, the normal cybersecurity kind of conversations with her,

45:22

uh, and, um and but she'd always start by saying, Hey, how you doing?

45:30

What's going on?

45:30

And then she say, Uh hey, how was your trip?

45:36

I heard you took that trip last weekend. How was it?

45:39

And, um, it immediately just made it more of a human interaction.

45:46

And, um

45:49

and that humanity side of the equation always came out,

45:53

and it changed the tenor

45:57

of the conversation, and it

45:59

and, um, it ultimately, honestly have culminated in every time I'd walk out of her office or hang up the phone call with her.

46:10

I felt better. I just feel better in general, better about about me. I just felt better about my role with that pair, about everything I was like,

46:19

and it's not like we stopped all of the problems necessarily. And often,

46:23

I'd say, Look, this is the solution,

46:27

but, uh, like medicine, that tastes bad. You know, there's some side effects.

46:31

Um,

46:32

and she would give me unilateral support.

46:37

Um, and she say, you know, what do you want? Do you want to talk to mark about it? I'll talk to Marco up, give a call tonight.

46:43

Um, tell me what you want to go. And

46:45

and that quality that attributes of being ableto make someone feel good about themselves regardless of what the subject matter is during the course of meaning

46:59

is a gift and a tremendous,

47:02

you know, leadership quality.

47:05

Ah,

47:06

and it looks easy. I thought it was pretty straight bars. That must be a formula here that I have to use.

47:15

Uh, and I thought I'd start by

47:19

thinking of what's going on in that personal the personal life of an individual do, and trying to bring the dredge a question or comment about that

47:28

to ground it. But it's more than that.

47:30

She just had a way of and believe me, she would say

47:35

there were times where she say, Look, I'm not sure I agree with that. Here's here's why. Here's the rationale for why I'm a little bit concerned or, you know, I consider I suggest you give some thought to that or, uh, you know,

47:47

you know, backed out of bed and, uh, and think it through before you act on it.

47:52

Um,

47:52

so but that she just had this way of making you feel better about yourself. And I see it as a tremendous leadership quality. That's a beautiful story on. And she has been spectacularly successful, I'm sure. Largely based on

48:12

into these these types of qualities now, with huge in one thing

48:15

I could hear on the chart cybersecurity industry luminary, cause I think you're an example of someone.

48:21

Well, I'm sure sees the future. Like, if I were working for you, I'm guessing that we would sit down and you probably would be pretty confident about

48:30

what you see,

48:31

where you go. How do you do that? Like, is it just you think you just you believe what you believe in. You see what you see, and it's just matter of sharing it, Or do you have to study and absorb and be out there? And how does one sort of develop a vision or Is it God given What's the what advice do you have for some of the folks who are listening here?

48:52

I don't think it's God given, Um, I think it's all developed.

48:58

Um

48:59

and you know, I think all of us have to think about what our strengths and weaknesses are,

49:06

Um, and just have self awareness for them. So I'll give you an example.

49:12

Um,

49:14

I'm really not

49:15

perspective

49:16

when confronted with a big problem,

49:22

and, uh and there's pressure on making a decision related to the big problem.

49:29

Now, a lot of people that I've worked with over the years would beg to differ. But I'm just telling you from Maur of a self awareness and myself,

49:40

I am a much better fire preventer than a fire fighter.

49:45

Um, and, uh, that's my preference.

49:49

Now, the reason I say that, because that's kind of deep within who I am

49:54

and just based on my life experience is probably because I, you know, suck a fighting fires.

50:02

Um, but I've learned that in order to avoid a situation where the pressure's up on and you have to fight a fire in the midst of a cyber security incident

50:13

Ah,

50:15

that

50:15

for me

50:17

preventing,

50:19

uh, that situation from occurring

50:22

was a much higher motivator

50:24

than solving the problem. Feeling the adrenaline rush and feeling good about it and moving on to the next day. Now,

50:34

I've worked with many people in cyber security. There's a guy that I work with.

50:38

I used to work for a little bank in New York.

50:40

Uh, and this guy that I work with

50:44

was,

50:45

uh, Hunt Cement

50:46

firefighter.

50:49

Now,

50:50

he was so,

50:52

um, effective as a firefighter.

50:55

There were many, many times in the back of my head. I was wondering,

51:00

did he call it that fire? Just to show how how good he was that, uh, operating in the trenches during the crisis.

51:12

And there's some people like that that there are adrenaline junkies that thrive on that, you know, critical situation. This is a guy, and this is honest to God. Truth.

51:22

Uh, his boss had a My boss, too. Had a staff meeting.

51:28

I think it was an hour, half, 19 minutes

51:30

and Ford of reason. It was I think it started at eight.

51:34

Uh, went to 9 30

51:37

Um, and I would work with him,

51:39

Uh, at least three years so I had a pretty

51:45

pretty good sample size of once a week. You know, this staff meeting?

51:50

Um, he never, ever came on time. Never.

51:53

Like I wasn't even close. He was never there at the start of the meeting

52:00

during every meeting

52:02

that he was head. Sometimes it was five minutes into the meeting, sometimes to his 15 minutes into the meeting.

52:09

Um, it was never predictable, but it always happened.

52:13

Get a cell phone call,

52:15

look at his boss.

52:17

And he'd say, I gotta take this any leave

52:22

about

52:22

60 70% of the time,

52:25

he never came back.

52:27

He'd lead them,

52:29

he'd be off doing something else.

52:30

Um, sometimes he'd come back, and it was like, unusual,

52:35

but that was his habit. Um, he also traveled between locations,

52:42

and so you could always get him on the cell phone.

52:45

Always,

52:46

Um, you think he'd pick up no matter where he waas

52:50

in between, You know, office is walking from one to the other, driving in his car,

52:55

whatever it is.

52:57

And what you realized over time is he was in other meetings

53:01

and you were the one calling him

53:04

after the meeting.

53:05

And this was all suddenly encouraged by him by his behavior and hope

53:12

the guy was never in any meeting that I that I remember, even if there was like Jamie was in the meeting, it's like he still follows the same thing.

53:22

And for him hey, wanted toe fight fires. Hey, went looking for them, you know? He may be. He fanned the flames, you know, a little brush fire just has the opportunity, you know, to operate that way. And,

53:40

um, I am just

53:44

the opposite of just the opposite side. I do everything possible

53:51

Thio to avoid a fire. Now, I don't see the future any better than anybody else.

53:58

Um, but

54:00

I am.

54:00

I try to solve problems before they're big

54:06

because big problems are harder to solve.

54:09

So, um, I will give an intense amount of

54:15

my time and work effort towards solving a problem that I know is gonna be a big problem. It's not a big problem today.

54:25

It will be a big problem.

54:28

And, um, because of that,

54:30

um uh, that, you know, I mean, I share everything I do with my peers. Uh, you know, and I've been working together for a couple of decades Uh, and, uh, some of the practices.

54:45

There's one practice that I've been doing for ah, figured out recently in 16 years.

54:51

And the formation for that practice

54:54

came from Ed, who tutored me.

54:59

I think my first, you know, see so well, what? American Express.

55:04

He brought me in and basically said,

55:07

Well, let me tell you about network security. Um, that had a huge influence on me because the practice I'd put in places the daily process for determining the

55:20

impact of external vented intro events on the risk posture of the enterprise and actually creating a risk score for the enterprise. Everything all day. Uh, and there's about 60 people that participate in that soak. There's consensus on what the risk is at any point in time,

55:37

and consensus on risk is absolutely essential if you're gonna make good decisions on allocation of scarce resource to the highest risk. If you don't agree on the highest risk, kind of falls apart. Way to come together on highest risk is consensus. Reality is different. Security people have different sense of risk. So that process,

55:52

which originated from a, uh, a lot of content that was so willing to share with me when I was a newbie.

56:01

Uh, I codified

56:05

and implement even today. I'm you know, I'm probably the fifth company that have implemented this. That, uh and

56:13

it's all because I'm trying to avoid

56:16

the,

56:17

you know, that firefight, and I'm trying to prepare for that firefight. I'm tryingto invest in preventive care deeply for the firefight. And so,

56:27

um,

56:29

uh, I've been involved with software security for a long time. It's one of the things that's very hard to get. Attribution of. Ah, cyber security incident back to a softer security defect, even though defects are are pretty common.

56:43

And so because of that, there's no real fire, but frankly, doing good hygiene around software

56:50

development prevents a lot of fires. So that's what's one aspect of that. And, uh, there many more where I'm, uh,

57:00

absolutely convinced and committed

57:05

to using data science is the foundation for cyber security.

57:08

Uh, you know, I had 300 plus machine learning algorithms running frontline security controls across eight platforms in production. My previous gig, I have one of the first hires I made

57:22

where I am right now. Matthew Toole was a chief data scientists building out of days science team. There's about 10 folks that are now part of the cyber security program. I'm absolutely committed to that.

57:32

Um, I believe that today's warfare is data science being used by threat actors and data science on the enterprise side protecting. And that is something we're going to see forevermore.

57:45

Um, so again, I'm trying to prevent

57:50

the fire's I'm not I'm not a firefighter. Uh,

57:53

even though sometimes I get called to do so

57:58

well, you are the consummate example the pupil exceeding the tutor, that's for sure. I mean, I couldn't be any prouder of the work you've done, Jim, in the last minute or so here for the group here. We've got a nice big group of budding si SOS here on the call. Any, um, one little bit of advice about

58:16

that they might want to keep in mind as they consider any. And WeII brought me. Both would make the joke. Maybe auto. See a psychiatrist before you decide you want to do this for a living, but said, setting that aside, assuming they've decided that do anyway,

58:32

any any one or two little little tips that you'd share as a closing thought that they have may keep in mind as they plan their career.

58:42

Yeah,

58:43

and it's triggered by some of the questions that had asked you and, uh,

58:49

and some of the information that you shared with you about examples of leadership

58:53

courage

58:55

is absolutely vital.

59:00

Um, or really any senior executive that's in a governance role.

59:06

Uh, and it's it's easy to recognize. Hard to describe, I guess. Uh,

59:13

but, uh, courage to stick to your conviction,

59:17

um,

59:19

is absolutely foundational There some csos that call its spine.

59:23

Um

59:24

and it, uh, it

59:28

it looks a little bit different. For example,

59:31

if I have head of digital, if there's a job description for a head of digital which there isn't a lot of

59:38

enterprises today,

59:40

they are the biggest

59:44

offenders of cyber security standards in the company. Uh, and the fact that if there's a chief digital officer,

59:52

then they're sanctioned by the CEO

59:57

uh, Thio go break policy. And, um, and every enterprise has some flavor. A version of this,

60:06

um and so some

60:07

keep those

60:09

recognizing the fundamental challenges of dealing with cloud infrastructure of service cloud security primarily in configuration management accountability that, uh,

60:21

they avoided any basis, and I don't want to deal with that. She did a lot. So I'm gonna do everything I can avoid. Or basically, they look, you're off the rancher off the farm. You're on your own.

60:30

Uh, you go accept the risk. I don't want any part of it.

60:35

Um, courage

60:37

is not

60:37

telling the chief digital officer.

60:40

You can't do it that way.

60:43

That's not That's not a good illustration of courage. As a leader, Courage

60:50

is embracing the digital officer

60:52

and saying I love new technology. I love to design new security controls that are unconventional that are part of any existing framework or risk framework or standard. Uh, I love doing that. And what you're doing in leading this enterprise towards the digital future,

61:14

not only do I want to be a part of it, I want to influence it.

61:17

Uh, I want to give you a better authentication capability with lower friction for the consumer.

61:22

Um, than anything on the market today. The differentiation stuff. I wanna make sure you're stopper scree program

61:30

is moral class.

61:31

Uh uh, and I want to do with you and, uh, Let's go. You ready?

61:37

That's courage.

61:39

Um,

61:40

on dhe spine at the same time.

61:46

By now, you go really exemplified that in a number of your career decisions going up to get into it now. But I've admired the work you've done.

61:57

I'll tell you, I hope there's some people listening who inspired by your example Jim on behalf of the whole class here in the whole community and

62:07

certainly the cyber ery team joining, thanking you for for joining us here and sharing your story.

62:15

I really do appreciate it.

62:17

Any kind of Well, listen, that's the end of our lecture number 12. I want to thank you guys all for Ah, wonderful. Siri's here and I can be of any assistance. You know where to reach me and leave. Shout out to you in team job helping us get through